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Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

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Re: Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

Messagede spacecadet » Sam 3 Aoû 2019 10:18

After the long silence wanted to give an update, and ask for some more help.

The engine was finished in May, and then it took me some more time to install all the accessories on it, and finish the engine bay. The engine was back in the car in June, cleaned all the cooling system, air pipes, and started up for the first time in July. Got some serious noise, which turned out to be the CO.ME clutch set which is not fully compatible. Instead of tweaking it, gearbox up and down is not so funny on jack stands, the original Sachs set was refurbished and I've installed it. I did source a new release bearing (Sachs 3151 600 781), which despite being a remanufacture of the original, still needed some adjusting, cutting and griding here and there. I was able to get one of the last ones, but unfortunately it seems this is again not available, only for stellar prices.

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So I replaced the clutch set, reinstalled the gearbox, started the car up without the exhaust (to verify the operation of clutch before reassembling everything) and the turbos were spitting out quite a lot coolant on both sides. I can see drops on the top of the pistons and on the spark plugs too.

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I did a leakdown test, on the right side, there were no bubbles coming up in the expansion tank, but the coolant level did increase. During engine rebuild I didn't remove the liners, there were held down with washers and nuts. It's not possible that they sink down right? There should be a lip on the bottom I guess. The block also wasn't touched, so they also can't protrude above the deck surface. Any idea how coolant gets into every cylinder on both sides? I can't see how this is happening with resurfaced and straight heads and new gaskets.
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Re: Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

Messagede alpa » Dim 25 Aoû 2019 11:17

Hey,
What do you mean a leakdown test ? Compression test and checking the water level ?
Of course liners can not sink, they should be able to stand tons of force from heads.
Who mounted heads ?
I don't think the problem could be on the head gasket side, today there is no mystery in the composite gasket technology. If they were properly installed and torqued they should not leak. And the probabilty to have leak on all cylinders is close to zero.
Are you sure to have the 2L and not 2.8L gaskets ? 2/2.8 heads are identical but the bore is different.
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Re: Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

Messagede spacecadet » Dim 25 Aoû 2019 22:40

On leakdown test I mean putting compressed air into the cylinders and checking how much air escapes.

Gaskets were good for sure, I received the 2.8L gaskets first, wanted to replace with 2.0L, but wasn't available from the factory, found reproduction at Candini, that's what I used.

I mounted the heads and today I think I found the problem: improper torque. Back then I waited half a day between the 2nd and the final stage and I remember when doing the final stage the nuts slightly moved before the torque wrench clicked, I think the were "sticking down".

When retorquing the heads, I loosened the nuts one-by-one (in assembly order) by 45 degrees to get rid of the breakaway torque, but when tightening back to the necessary 90Nm, nearly all of them turned approx. with a further 45 degrees. I don't know how much additional torque that means, guessing 15-20Nm. This could probably lead to a leak on all cylinders.
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Re: Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

Messagede alpa » Lun 26 Aoû 2019 11:24

Did you oil head nuts and washers ? Strangly the biturbo workshop man says to oil for 18v heads but does not for 24v heads. While most of engines require oiling. Additionally you have custom made gaskets so what did they say ?
Because if you have not oil while you should the torque level you applied would be insufficient.
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Re: Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

Messagede spacecadet » Lun 26 Aoû 2019 13:59

Yes, I've lubricated studs, nuts, and washers, not with oil but with grease.
The gaskets are interchangeable with the factory provided ones, same process can be used.
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Re: Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

Messagede alpa » Lun 26 Aoû 2019 23:54

Well you should use engine oil, this is standard on car engines. But grease is still better than nothing.
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Re: Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

Messagede spacecadet » Mer 11 Sep 2019 20:23

I've used grease with moly content, but right, oil is more common.

Checked the 24v manual, it says "lubricate the studs, washers and lock-nuts", so that's in line with the 18v manual then.

Anyway, unfortunately retorquing didn't help, so I'll pull the engine in a hope that removing the heads will reveal something :(
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Re: Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

Messagede gemini » Mer 11 Sep 2019 20:33

That's a bummer.

I'm sure it's possible to remove the heads without removing the engine. They did it with my first ghibli.
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Re: Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

Messagede alpa » Mer 11 Sep 2019 21:46

On Ghibli it'll take less time to remove the engine.
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Re: Ghibli de Hongrie [ENG]

Messagede spacecadet » Mer 11 Sep 2019 21:51

Sounds interesting, do you have any further information maybe?

RH side seems doable, but on LH side - even if the ABS and brake master cylinder are removed, which are in the way to easily remove the exhaust manifold - the brake booster seems to be interfering with the head.
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